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A READER'S JOURNAL

The Shadow That Seeks the Sun
A Story About Yogis, Bhogis, and an Unexpected Encounter

by
Ray Brooks

ARJ2 Chapter: Spiritual Science
Published by TellWell/CA in 2016
A Book Review by Bobby Matherne ©2016

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This book asks the question, “What is the shadow in each of us which disappears when it reaches the Sun?” In essence it is an unanswered question which bugged Ray until he met Rudra and listened to Rudra’s talks, which helped Ray find an answer to his question. The answer I am not going to tell you directly. You will have to find your own Rudra, or read this book, or spend the rest of your life searching for an answer.

What is a shadow but the result of something obscuring the Sun? If you have been in a shadow all your life, how would you know it? There is light in a shadow, but it is reflected from other objects, and you are not receiving direct beams from the Sun.

Things can be hidden in a shadow, so moving in a shadow can be scary. Horses, which are otherwise dependable and steady, get skittish when they are trotting on city streets. Drivers of city carriages put blinders on their horses to prevent them from being scared by the shadows of buildings on city streets. In Western movies, one rarely sees blinders on horses because there are few narrow shady streets with tall buildings, just a long wide avenue through the sparsely populated towns of the old West.

How would you know if you were living in a shadow? In his earlier book, Blowing Zen, Ray had been living in a shadow by not knowing what a shakuhachi flute was. Soon as it stepped out of its shadow to him, he began to learn to play it. Soon he was blowing Zen and wondering why he was blowing Zen. He had moved out of one shadow into another. Life is like that, we move from one shadow into another one. We always seem to be making an effort to find peace, happiness, and freedom, trying to overcome all the obstacles in our way, getting rid of all that is troubling us, loosening all the ties that bind us, keeping us from freedom.

In this book we learn of the shadow which Ray faced during the time when he was living in India. Along the way we are introduced to variety of interesting people, his Sita Dianne (his wife), the Monkey Punky gang, the bhogis, various yogis, and street people of Rishikeesh. The money baba was a bhogi who assaulted people with requests for money, like, “I am God. Give me one hundred rupees!” (Page1) The money babas or bhogis were not holy men, but simply street beggars or perhaps criminals on the run. India is a large place and it is easy to get away from the eyes of the law. Among so many beggars, a criminal can easily get lost. Not only could criminals get lost but time itself could get lost. “There wasn’t a clock in India that was right.” (Page3) This resulted in a cacaphony of bells at the top of each hour clanging from different ashrams of the area.

The Monkey Punky gang were children who sold the small flowers and vases which floated as an offering to Mother Ganga (the Ganges) on a regular basis. The ghats were shallow flagstone steps by which faithful could enter the river for ritual cleansing and baths. Ray had been returning to this area with his wife for twenty-five years. “Why the fascination with India?” his new friend Rudra asked him. It began with a bright red silk tie worn by a door-to-door salesman that pre-teen Ray heard saying he was from India. “Where was India?” he thought and couldn’t wait to ask his grandfather who showed him India in an old atlas. This led Ray eventually to Krishnamurti, becoming for a time a follower of his.

This book is punctuated by nine talks Ray has with Rudra, each of which challenges Ray’s beliefs and sends him off wondering.

In Talk One, Rudra challenges Ray’s description of having special experiences, a magical moment or heightened awareness. He says, “You know, Ray . . . heightened experiences only have significance if they point to what is already here.” So far as I can tell Rudra wanted to bring Ray’s attention away from the then and there of his memory of an experience to the here and now of his present experience. All we can experience exists in the present moment. If you wish to experience eternity, take a deep breath, and from beginning to end you are experiencing eternity, the ever-present now.

At this point, I recall something which happened in a software meeting around 1970. After a long discussion, Ray Bagley, looked at us through his thick bottle glass spectacles and asked, “What does all this mean?” Often I have thought of Bagley’s question when a discussion goes on for too long. If we don’t have a succinct answer to Bagley’s question, then perhaps we’re only batting the wind with our voices. Rudra asks Ray Brooks a question which takes him aback, causing him to pause, and hold it as an unanswered question; the best gift you can give to an intrepid listener is to give him a question with no easy answer.

[page 18] “Ray, is any of what you’ve just said true?”
I was startled by the directness of his question.

Rudra directs Ray back to the process of experience, the What Is Going On (1) , and away from the content of experience, the Map of what is experienced.

[page 18] For there to be experiences [i.e. content] there would have to be ‘someone’ to have them. For there to be someone, the knowing [process] and the known [content] would have to be separate.

At this point, Ray gives a typical “I know that” response to a great unanswered question. It is the answer of the “full teacup” person. The metaphor is from a famous story of a Western professor who came to learn something from an esteemed Japanese monk. He was invited to a tea ceremony and the monk pours the tea into the professor’s cup. When it reaches the top, the monk keeps pouring and the hot tea splashes onto the professor’s hand. “Stop!” the professor cries, “can’t you see that the teacup is full?” “Yes,” the monk replies, “Can’t you see that you came to me with a full teacup of knowledge expecting to learn something?”

Here's Ray’s answer to Rudra.

[page 18] “I know what you’re referring to, but that has never been my experience. I’m certain that what I’m looking for is connected to these experiences. They’ve shown me that there’s more life than the mundane and that there is the possibility of freedom.”

Rudra could have ended their relationship at this point, but instead brings Ray back into the here-and-now present, “No matter how sublime the experience, it only ever points to this, where you already are.” (Page 19) He points Ray to his “I”, but giving Ray the final answer to his search so early that it would not be enough. In learning something new, it’s best to learn all about it before you start, so Rudra gives it all to Ray, who naturally rejects it.

[page 23] “Ray, ‘experience’ or ‘awareness’ or whatever you want to call it, are just other names for ‘you.’ That is the simple sense of ‘I’.”

Ray replies by letting his I in process talk about his I in content.

[page 24] “I’ve always thought that ‘I’ was the problem.”

Rudra sees the problem with Ray’s thinking; it’s like the dog chasing his tail. Thinking his tail is not part of himself, the dog chases it indefinitely. Ray’s “I” is a content he made up and his “I” in process will continue to chase it indefinitely. “It’s a futile path,” Rudra tells Ray. “Like a shadow which seeks the sun.” There’s the eponymous phrase which becomes the title of this book and a mantra of Ray’s search as it is unraveled in the course of this book.

Ray says that there is something he’s not getting. Rudra tells him that thought is not getting, that “thought cannot know peace. It can only know about peace.” (Page 25) As Rudra takes his leave of Ray, he says, “To be here in this love is easy. All else is effort. Namaste.” (Page 26)

Thirty years earlier, Ray had an amazing experience as he sat at a bar with a woman he’d recently met and suddenly everything had gone quiet. It was as if a cosmic ray had zipped through him and ionized him the way they do tiny computer circuits to cause what we affectionately call a glitch. I recently tagged glitch with this acronym, a Gremlin Licking In The Computer Hardware, an unknown malfunction which can cause some circuit to hang up, become quiet, and require a reboot or a complete shutdown to recover from. Ray describes what happened to him:

[page 29 30] Twenty minutes into our chat, a sudden and strong sensation came over me. It felt as if the whole place had gone quiet, like sound was at a distance. Overcome by the experience, I could neither ignore it nor shake it off. I tried to concentrate but kept losing the gist of what my date was talking about. I offered her another drink hoping the sound of my voice would return me to normal. But the sense of dissociation only expanded. I could see her lips moving but I’d lost all contact with the meaning of the words. I felt like a spectator outside of my body, watching actors in a play. I was fully cognizant of the “dream” that was taking place, but I was not a part of it. Overwhelmed, I mumbled that I felt unwell and told my confused date that I had to leave. She looked concerned and offered to drive me home. I refused and apologized for spoiling the evening. Without waiting for a response, I pushed through the crowd in search of oxygen.

Interestingly, when he told his friends about this episode, they nicknamed him Cosmic Ray, saying “Cosmic Ray couldn’t make it to the pub last night. Said he was staying home to meditate. Still, it’s better than sitting around doing nothing!” (Page 31) Soon he and his friends parted company. It was as if a Cosmic Ray had blown through reality, ionized a few friends, and moved on. His friends managed to recover from Cosmic Ray and move on with their customary life, but for Ray, it was a complete shutdown and reboot, which eventually led him to his walking the ghats along the Ganges in Rishikesh, India.

Before he left London he had one more essential thing to do, and it happened at an art gallery. As so often happens when we meet someone who will become an essential part of the rest of our lifetime, Ray was hit by a “time wave from the future” (2) . Such a time wave comes in as a strong feeling, and even though he doesn’t mention what he was feeling, it seems as though the feeling would go away if he looked elsewhere, so he kept looking at her.

[page 35] I didn’t recognize anyone, but did notice a young woman who was talking with a group. I couldn’t take my eyes off her. She wore her hair almost to her waist and was casually, if a bit untidily, dressed for the occasion in tight jeans tucked into high-heeled boots. She was laughing and had a vivacious, easy energy about her. She saw me looking and immediately invited me to join the group.

This was Dianne, who was to become Ray’s wife, his Sita, and join him in India. He read Krishnamurti’s book, You Are the World, and found this amazing question, “Can we live in freedom without conflict?” which captivated him. This is a great Unanswered Question (UAQ) to hang onto, in my opinion. I didn’t find my own answer to that question until I took Andrew Joseph Galambos’ course in Volitional Science, V50T, in New Orleans. His lectures had a great effect on me. Galambos offered me an operational definition for freedom which has helped me steer my ship of life away from the shoals of coercion ever since (3) . I found that the sources of conflict arise from violations of freedom, and with an operational definition for freedom, one can avoid conflicts.

Ray met George, a follower who had listened to Krishnamurti talk for twenty years, and asked him if the talks had any effect on him. His answer was:

[page 45] “There have been some changes in me but, as Krishnamurti would say, change is no change at all. I’m like a bee buzzing around the honey pot — so close.”

Ray asked George if he ever asked Krishnamurti directly, “Why are you free and I am not?” George said, “Yes, although it wasn’t much help. K simply said, ‘I don’t mind what happens.’” (Page 46)

How I understand Krishnamurti ‘s answer, based on Alfred Korzyski’s work: When you mind what happens, you create maps of thought which obscure reality (the WIGO or territory) from you. Getting Ray to understand the “I” and the “mind” portion of Krishnamurti’s answer was the challenge facing Rudra on the ghats in India with Ray, as I see it.

Ray and Dianne moved to Japan for several years after his study with Krishnamurti and, during this time, Ray takes up the shakuhachi, a bamboo flute, and plays it intensely around Japan, even going on pilgrimages up a mountain playing it. His hands were freezing so much that other pilgrims would stop and offer the warmth of their own hands to warm his so he could continue to play (4) . The playing of the special bamboo flute creates a territory in which one can live for a time completely without thoughts and as such can be a great aid to over-thinking Western thinkers like me and Ray. He and Dianne got several recommendations to visit the yoga center of Rishikesh in India, and that’s how they came to Mother Ganga and her son Rudra.

Rudra begins Talk Two with an admonition, “Ray, please look and listen with openness and innocence to see what is actually true. This may be difficult to do at first, but I can assure you, all your concepts, theories, and beliefs will be challenged.” (Page 72) Ray agrees. Note that concepts, theories, and beliefs are all maps of the WIGO which Rudra is maneuvering Ray to experience directly. Rudra is like a leader of a graduate seminar whereas Krishnamurti held classes for undergraduates. Ray will be challenged every time he slides into some mental construct and away from direct experience. Rudra again gives Ray a direct answer, “‘I am’ is the first thing that is known before thoughts and sensations.” One might suppose that sensations are the first level of experience, but sensations quickly morph into concepts, whereas our I requires no concepts — it is the name that only I can use to refer to myself. Anything I might say about myself is a concept, but my experience of my “I” is not a sensation and requires no thought.

In Talk Three, Rudra reminds Ray what their mantra is, “No matter what you hear, it is much simpler than that.” Why? Because, he says, “there is no hearer and heard, only hearing.” And adds that “hearing is experience without a thought story.” (Page 94, 95)

Ray attempts to paraphrase what he’s learned so far:

[page 99] “It’s astonishing, Rudra. Until now it seemed that thought was in the foreground and awareness in the background. It’s the other way around, isn’t it?”

Well, it’s neither Rudra tells him, both foreground and background are thoughts, awareness — your I — is all there is. Rudra sums it up for Ray this way:

[page 102] “Ray, thought knows nothing of the real. Thought doesn’t know this peace and cannot touch the love. And where there is love there is not a hint of fragmentation or fear. You alone are the real.”

Talk Four begins with a half-naked sadhu, a baba, asking Ray to guess what he has in his hand. When Ray says he doesn’t know, the baba opens his hand revealing a leaf and yells, “Everything!” When Rudra arrives he uses Ray’s leaf baba story to explain that the baba was pointing to a luminous oneness. Ray tells Rudra about his sixty-day discipline of climbing the mountain in Japan playing his shakuhachi flute. “It felt like a breakthrough at the time and I was satisfied that it was a real insight. Now I’m beginning to see that thought had claimed ownership of awareness.” Rudra tells Ray that such a process was still the shadow seeking the Sun by reifying awareness. That was still duality. Ray agrees, “Yes, I can see how thought gets in on the act and claims to know oneness.”

Rudra sums up this Talk:

[page 123] “Ray, until there is absolute certainty that you, awareness, are all there is, keep drawing your attention to that which does not evolve. Keep coming back to your own obliviousness, your own being. Not some future being not some higher being or special being — just ordinary being. How it feels to be you, as you are right now. Everything points to this that you are because you are everything that is. Being everything, where could you not find yourself? Being everything, what could possibly matter about anything?”

In Talk Five, Rudra and Ray exchange ideas on consciousness, and finally Rudra sums it up the so-called “hard problem of consciousness” this way:

[page 152] “Difficult to find an answer when you are the answer. They should first look and see if there is any separation between the knowing and know.”

[page 156] “See that all we actually know is experience, which is simply you, awareness. See that there is only ever one.”

In Talk Six, Ray tells Rudra he’s learned more from him in their short talks and all his previous years of study. Rudra admits that study can get in the way, like the mud picked up by wagon wheels can slow down a wagon.

[page 191] “Yes, Ray, accumulated knowledge is a hindrance to the seeing that there never was or could be any separation between an imagined experiencer and experience. To see clearly that there is nothing here but experience is freedom enough. No more is needed.”

Ray needs more because he still sees a separation where there is none, so he asks if meditation can bring one to reality. Rudra simply points to the beauty of the river. Ray asks if Rudra calls it meditation when he sits on the river banks looking at it. Rudra shakes his head.

[page 197] “It has never occurred to me to call it anything. I simply sit because I apparently enjoy it. The meditator, who is sitting as a motive to find reality is like a flower trying to smell its own perfume. . . . The meditator and meditating are two aspects of the same thing. There is no more meditation than knowing what you are and being what you love. If the seeker is meditating, that is what is happening.

Entering Talk Seven, we feel that Ray is getting closer to integrating the two parts of himself, the seeker and the sought, the eponymous shadow seeking the Sun. He and Rudra are sitting on the steps of the ghat.

[page 219] Three women dressed in colorful saris walked by, their hips swaying from side to side like models on a Paris runway. Each had a long primitive-looking curved blade tucked into the waist of her skirt. They were returning from the forest with huge bundles of cow fodder balanced on their heads.

“Ray, touch the step either side of you and tell me if there is the perception of something solid, dense, and inert. Tell me is it not fully alive with aware-presence? Look around you. Tell me if you find anything that could possibly be called dead matter. Is there such a thing as matter? Or is there only this presence-awareness?”

Placing my hands on the step, I watched the women glide into the distance. All that I found was inexpressible, only aware-presence, only reality.

Challenged by Rudra, Ray could not point to anything separate from him. They both sat in quietness, being aware of their own being.

In Talk Eight, Ray surprises Rudra by still having a couple of questions. Where is the Jesus cave? What about karma? Rudra suggests he visit the cave where Jesus is supposed to have visited, saying the view is nice. Karma involves a dream character but if you look it’s only awareness. Then Ray asked what happens to awareness when the body goes.

[page 229] “Nothing happens. Nothing real could possibly die. Where could you go? How could the idea of death and the concept of karma possibly matter to everything? We grieve and mourn the loss of a loved one, but we don’t disturb the peace that we are. No one is lost to anyone. Love is never lost. . . . What you are was never born. So what could possibly be subjected to death?

Rudra finds a metaphor to reach Ray. He directs his attention down to the river waves lapping on the steps of the ghat.

[page 230] The waves are unaware of the ocean and know only what is happening on the surface of the ocean. One of the waves crashes to the shore and disappears. ‘Where did it go?’ asks another wave. Now, you tell me, Ray, where did the wave go?

Ray tries several answers, “Returned to its source” and is rebuffed, “It is part of the ocean.” Another try: “It dissolves back into the ocean.” A longer rebuff.

[page 230, 231] “No, an expression of the ocean never left the ocean to dissolve back into the ocean. The wave did not go anywhere nor could it go anywhere. . . . The ocean is all there is. In our metaphor, the ocean is one. Where can ocean go when it is all that is? Where can oneness go when it is all that is? Where could you go when you are all that is?

In Talk Nine Rudra reveals his personal life, that his father was Oxford-educated and a missionary who married his mother who became Christian. She called him John, but his father called him Rudra. As a young boy Rudra searched for this oneness he was sharing with Ray, and one day he realized his “I am”.

[page 244] On my days off from school I would go into the surrounding mountains and contemplate, what this ‘I am’ might mean. Then, one sunny morning, while lying in the grass watching the vultures circling above me, I simply saw that I was this self-luminous ‘I am.’ Not the ‘I’ that points to a ‘person’ caught up in life. I saw the ‘I’ beyond the word. Aware-beingness that depends on ‘no thing.’ I was flooded with this presence and could hardly contain my joy.

But Rudra couldn’t tell his father that the ‘I am’ referred to by Jesus in the Gospels was the doorway to freedom and that he Rudra had discovered that doorway in himself. No, saying that to a missionary like his father who believed that Jesus was the door would have been like claiming Rudra was the key and the door. He couldn’t tell his father that there was no door to ‘all that is.’ Ray agrees, saying, “As long as you’re searching for the key there’s a door to go through.” And Rudra replies, “Yes. The key is to stop searching and look at your actual experience.” (Page 244)

There’s a wonderful Sufi story. Nasruddin was searching for a key under a streetlight and his friend came by and got on his knees to help him search. After a while with no success, his friend says, “Where did you lose the key, Nasruddin?”

“In the house.”

“Then why are you looking out here in the street for it?”

“Because there is more light.”

We look for something where there seems to be more light, while the answer lies within. Rudra experienced that after his day of discovery, but over time it disappeared. He then became a seeker, like Nasruddin, looking everywhere but inside, as he says when his talk with Ray continued.

[page 245] That was probably the day I became a serious seeker and, as you well know, there is nothing more difficult than seeking that which we already are.”

“It’s a bit like looking for your glasses when they’re on your head.”

“More like looking for your glasses when you are looking through them.”

 Rudolf Steiner’s spiritual science, anthroposophy, studies the full human being in body, soul, and spirit. We have three bodies: a physical body, an etheric or life body, and an astral body. These develop from birth in seven year stages. Our physical body is ready at teeth change when the teeth developed in our mother’s body in the womb are pushed out and our own body arrives with new teeth and new cells in every part. Our life body reaches full development at puberty, about age 14, and we are ready for the astral body which facilitates our ability to feel and to reproduce. At age 21, we reach the age of maturity and can begin to exert our “I” or “I am” — the immortal spirit which infuses us at every point of our life and gives us freedom. “I” is the one name that only each one of us can use to refer to our own self. This “I” is so new in history, that one can discover older languages have no separate word for “I”. When Rene Descartes wrote in Latin, “Cogito, ergo sum”, he needed no word for “I” as it was assumed to be present in the word “cogito” I think, and “sum” I am. The words “I am” dramatically appears to Moses after he receives the Ten Commandments and asks the Great Spirit, “Who shall I say sends me?” and receives the answer rightly understood as, “Tell them the I Am sends you.” With the coming of Christ into the body of Jesus of Nazareth in the Jordan during the baptism by John, the Great I Am spirit became man for the first time, suffered and died as a man, and entered the Earth upon death on Golgotha to remain available for every human being who seeks freedom to find it inside as a personal “I am”, exactly as Rudra did, and as each of us can do, in due time.

As Rudra says:

[page 246] When Jesus said, “I am the truth, the way and the light (5) I understood him to be referring to this indivisible oneness.”

Later Rudra quotes Christ Jesus from the Gospel of Saint Thomas as saying, ‘From me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift up a stone and you will find me there.’ Then Rudra adds, “Where am I not? Why would this self-luminous, self-aware-presence ever need enlightening?”(Page 249)

Ray closes with a short summary:

[page 264] The discovery that ‘objects’ are not really ‘objects’ and that ‘others’ are not really ‘others’ is what we call love. The belief that there are objects and others separate from me is what we call love. The belief that there are objects and others separate from me is what we call suffering.

The certainty that what I am cannot be grasped. Whatever we call something cannot be the something, and above all things that is true of God. Whatever we call God cannot be grasped and cannot be missed. Anyone who claims God is dead is burying their illusion of God, and is admitting by their own words they have tried to grasp the Ungraspable and have failed. If we would erect a monument to their failure, it would look like the gravestone below:

Focusing only on Ray’s talks with Rudra would be like offering you, Dear Reader, a sandwich of only meat with no bread. Between the meaty talks Ray shares his and Dianne’s life in India with us. The money babas, the God-baba, the Monkey Punky kids, and many others pestered him, asked him for help, gave him rides, helped him find places, and otherwise filled his days. Prem was an example of his many friends. Living alongside the Ganges, subsisting mostly on hashish, his head was covered with a large coil of thick dreadlocks and his skinny neck with many strands of Rudraksha seed prayer beads. Prem thought Ray owned a fleet of helicopters, but never asked him for money, and only once offered Ray a puff of his chillum (conical hashish pipe) which he refused. Ray missed Prem after he drowned.

[page 67] Prem’s death was a tragic accident, but a common one along this holy river. During the monsoons the Ganga in this area swells, becoming a fierce and often destructive force smashing through the community. One morning, while Prem was taking his daily bath, he had unraveled his mass of dreadlocks and bent over into the fast flowing river to wash them. In that moment he was swept away. According to witnesses, as soon as he had dunked his head in the river he was taken with such force that he never stood a chance. Prem’s body was never found. Only his soap, shortwave radio, and chillum were left on the step.

Life and death were never far away from where Ray and Dianne lived. One day she saw a shrouded figure sitting on the Ganga ghats night and day for a week, not an uncommon sight in Rishikesh. She or Ray periodically checked on the figure. What they found was a young man with shallow breathing, but otherwise not moving. He was around thirty and impressed Ray with how upright and still he sat. (Page 103) Finally Ray forced a little water between his lips, which he immediately spit out, and asked for his name.

[page 106] He opened his eyes and seemed overjoyed to recognize me.
“You are Govinda.”
“What is your name, my friend?”
“I am Bruuuce Leeee. Bruuuce Leee.”
“Pardon?”
“I am Bruce Lee. You are Govinda”
“You must drink some water, Bruce Lee.”
“No water,” he whispered.

Ray brought him to the Hari Krishna temple which accepted him, but in no time, Bruce Lee had himself evicted and was sitting on the ghats again. The young man grew nearer to death and Ray in desperation had him taken to a German lady who ran a leper colony in the mountains. She took Bruce Lee, but first Ray had to make a promise in writing.

[page 112] Twenty minutes later the Dutch matron appeared carrying a writing pad and a pen.

“Please write a letter promising that you will never come back to this hospital again and that you will not mention to anyone that you were here. We cannot handle more patients! This letter will relieve you of any responsibility. You do not want responsibility for this man, I can assure you!”

Responsibility would mean that Ray would be required to pay for the man’s funeral and other expenses as is the practice in the region.

Hope you have enjoyed this nutritious sandwich with light meat inside of dark bread. Ray’s Blowing Zen left me with shakuhachi music ringing in my ears and this book left me with spiritual nourishment.



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---------------------------- Footnotes -----------------------------------------

Footnote 1.
The WIGO (What Is Going On) is the pure, unadulterated reality of the Structural Differential created by the Polish Count Alfred Korzybski as the basic of classic work in 1933, Science and Sanity, which formed the basis of General Semantics.

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Footnote 2.
See Remember the Future, it Hums in the Present/A>.

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Footnote 3.
This V50T course has been transcribed into the book, Sic Itur Ad Astra.

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Footnote 4.
See my review of Ray Brooks’ book, Blowing Zen.

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Footnote 5.
The exact passage from John 14:6 is “I am the way, the truth, and the life”, but we understand Christ Jesus as the Light of the World, the Great Sun Spirit which has become a part of Earth since the Deed of Golgotha.

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Any questions about this review, Contact: Bobby Matherne

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